In this episode of People Play Story, we delve into the intriguing concept of being "interested" versus "interesting," as explored by communication expert Martin Kloss in his book, People Play Story. We discuss the common trap of trying too hard to be interesting, which can often come across as self-centered and counterproductive. Instead, Kloss suggests a shift in focus towards cultivating genuine interest in others and the content we share.
We explore Kloss's personal anecdotes, including his childhood attempts to emulate the coolness of Michael J. Fox, and how these experiences taught him the value of authenticity. The episode highlights the importance of being genuinely curious about others, asking thoughtful questions, and truly listening to responses, which can transform interactions and make us more captivating.
Kloss introduces the idea of two levels of interest: being interested in your content and in your audience. By tapping into authentic enthusiasm and preparing for interactions with curiosity about others' backgrounds and interests, we can create more engaging and meaningful conversations.
Ultimately, the episode emphasizes that the most captivating individuals are those who are genuinely interested in the world and people around them. By shifting our focus from seeking validation to creating shared experiences, we can become more magnetic and interesting without even trying. Join us as we explore these insights and learn how to cultivate curiosity and connection in our daily interactions.
[00:00:08]
Martin Kloss:
Hi, and welcome to People Play Story, a podcast about storytelling and how to communicate with impact. My name is Martin Kloss, and I'm a professional story coach and speaker trainer. I recently wrote a book. It's called People Play Story, but it's only available in German for now. So to help me reach a wider audience and spread the word about the power of stories, I created this podcast. Full disclosure, what you're about to hear is generated by an AI, courtesy of Google's notebook LM. And each episode is based on a different chapter of my book. I hope you enjoy it and that I can give you something to think about today. Have fun.
[00:00:53] Unknown:
Okay. So today, we're diving into something I think we all kinda crave. You know? Yeah. Being interesting. It's true. Like, that feeling of you wanna make a good impression. You wanna hold someone's attention. Yeah. And we're looking at communication expert Martin Kloss who says, there's this surprising trap we often fall into, and it all starts with how we approach this whole being interesting
[00:01:14] Unknown:
thing. Yeah. And what I find fascinating is that Klaus, in his book, People Place Story, specifically the chapter Interested versus Interesting, he actually argues that directly going for interesting can kind of backfire.
[00:01:27] Unknown:
Okay. So unpack that a little bit. Why would aiming to be interesting, why would that make us less so?
[00:01:34] Unknown:
Well, it comes across as, I think a little self centered, maybe even needy. Because think about it. When you're trying too hard to be interesting, what you're really focused on is what you're getting out of the interaction. Right. The validation, the attention, all of that. But what about the other person?
[00:01:52] Unknown:
So we're so busy trying to impress them that we forget to actually connect with them. Exactly. And people can sense that. Right? They know
[00:01:59] Unknown:
when someone's genuinely interested in them versus just trying to kinda sell them something even if it's their own personality.
[00:02:06] Unknown:
Yeah. That reminds me. Kloss talks about how as a kid, he was obsessed with being cool like Michael j Fox in Back to the Future. Yeah. Like, he even took up skateboarding to school hoping to impress everyone. Oh, wow. And how'd that go? Well, not great, apparently. Yeah. He said it just felt inauthentic and people could tell. Well, sure. Because as he points out, being cool, being interesting,
[00:02:28] Unknown:
you can't force it.
[00:02:29] Unknown:
Those qualities, they're usually a byproduct of something else, something deeper. And that's where his big idea comes in, right, this shift from interesting to interested.
[00:02:37] Unknown:
Yes. Exactly. Kloss argues that cultivating genuine interest and, crucially, interest in your audience, that is the real key to captivating others.
[00:02:48] Unknown:
So instead of trying to be the most interesting person in the room, we should, what, aim to be the most I mean, that almost sounds too simple. How does that actually work? Well, it's about shifting your focus a little bit. You know? Think of it this way. Imagine
[00:03:00] Unknown:
you're at a party. Right? Right. And you meet someone who's clearly trying to impress everyone with their stories and their jokes. Yeah. Now imagine you meet someone else, and they are genuinely curious about you. Uh-huh. They're asking thoughtful questions. They're listening to your answers. They're sharing their own experiences, but in a way that connects to yours. Yeah. Who are you gonna find more interesting?
[00:03:21] Unknown:
The second person, for sure. Just even thinking about it, I can feel that difference.
[00:03:26] Unknown:
Exactly. It's about making that connection. And it all starts with just being present, being engaged with the person right there in front of you. Plus, he compares it to, like, a gift exchange. Okay. When you bring genuine interest to the table, both in, you know, your content and in your audience, the whole interaction, it just becomes richer, more rewarding for everyone.
[00:03:48] Unknown:
Okay. I'm starting to see how this works. So it's not about, like, faking passion or just throwing out random questions. It's about, like you were saying, finding that spark, that thing that genuinely makes you wanna share it Yeah. Yeah. With someone else. You got it. And and Klaus actually breaks it down into, like, these two levels of interested.
[00:04:05] Unknown:
Right. He calls the first one being interested in your content. And this isn't about, you know, being the world's leading expert on a subject. Right? It's about
[00:04:15] Unknown:
finding that spark, that thing that truly makes you wanna share it with somebody else. You know, that that reminds me, actually, the other day I was reading this article about insert interesting fact related to the topic of the deep dive. And I was so blown away by it. I, like, immediately called my friend to tell him all about it. Sure. I I just I couldn't wait to share that that excitement. You know? That's a perfect example. That's what he's talking about, that that contagious enthusiasm that is so much more compelling than
[00:04:43] Unknown:
any, you know, rehearsed speech or performance.
[00:04:46] Unknown:
Right. Okay. So that that's interested in the content. What about he said there were two levels. What about interested in your audience? Because I'll be honest, sometimes I get so caught up in what I'm talking about that I kinda forget to think about the other person. Oh, sure. We've all been there. But the good news is Kloss gives us a beautifully simple tool for this. Okay. Asking questions. Oh, yeah. And and really listening to the answers, of course. It's amazing how something so fundamental can be so powerful. Right. But I can see how that would make the other person feel,
[00:05:19] Unknown:
you know, valued, heard. Mhmm. And then instantly, it makes the conversation more engaging. It really is. Think about it. When you ask someone a question, you're basically saying, hey, I'm interested in what you have to say. And who doesn't wanna feel like their thoughts and opinions are valued? Right. Totally. It's like you're giving them permission to be interesting just by being interested in them. I love that. It's a beautiful paradox, isn't it? But but how do we make this work, like, practically? You know? It's not like we can just, like, walk around with a list of interview questions for every person we meet. Maybe some of us can. But I I I think there's a more, organic approach, probably. Right. Right. And Kloss, he gives some good advice for this. He suggests, like, just a little, like, pre interaction prep. Okay. So before you go into a presentation or even just a casual conversation, just take a second. Think about what genuinely interests you about the topic. K. Like, what are you excited to talk about? So tapping into that authentic enthusiasm again. Exactly. And then think about, you know, the person or people you're gonna be interacting with. What are their backgrounds? What are their interests? What kind of questions might actually spark their curiosity? It's almost like you're, what, like, setting the stage for a more engaging, more meaningful conversation before it even begins. Exactly. Precisely. And then during the conversation itself, remember those two levels. Let your own genuine curiosity shine through, you know, because people are drawn to that. But also, just make a conscious effort to ask questions. Actually listen to those responses. Yeah. And you'll be amazed by how much this simple shift
[00:06:47] Unknown:
can really transform your interaction. So it really is about being present, being engaged, and being genuinely curious about the world around us and the people in it. Sounds so simple, but I can see how powerful that could be. It is powerful. And and you know what I find interesting?
[00:07:04] Unknown:
Often, the people we find most captivating, they're not the ones who are trying the hardest to impress us. It's the ones who are just genuinely interested in the world, in the people around them. Right. They listen. They ask questions. They share their own passions with, like you were saying, that contagious enthusiasm. And that's what makes them so magnetic. That is interesting.
[00:07:26] Unknown:
And it really brings it home that being genuinely interested is it's so much more attractive than just trying to appear interesting. Right. It's about making that connection, sparking that curiosity,
[00:07:36] Unknown:
and creating the shared experience that, you know, benefits everyone. Exactly. It's about shifting that focus from what can I get out of this interaction to what can we create together? And that's how you become someone that people they genuinely want to be around. That's a fantastic takeaway. So to wrap things up, if you wanna be more interesting,
[00:07:54] Unknown:
be more interested. Cultivate your own curiosity, ask questions, be present in those interactions. And who knows, you might just find that by focusing on being interested, you actually become the most interesting person in the room without even trying. Absolutely. That's the beauty of it. And that is all the time we have for today's deep dive. We hope you've enjoyed this exploration of Martin Kloss's work as much as we have. Until next time, keep those minds curious, stay interested, and keep those conversations flowing.
[00:08:31] Martin Kloss:
Hi everyone, it's me again. Just a quick note before I let you go. I hope you found today's episode entertaining, engaging and maybe even inspiring. If you did, please spread the word. And if you didn't, please keep it to yourself. And if you wanna know more, have any questions, or wanna work with me, please get in touch with me on MartinKloss.com or on LinkedIn. Now have a great day. Go out and do something fun.
Hi, and welcome to People Play Story, a podcast about storytelling and how to communicate with impact. My name is Martin Kloss, and I'm a professional story coach and speaker trainer. I recently wrote a book. It's called People Play Story, but it's only available in German for now. So to help me reach a wider audience and spread the word about the power of stories, I created this podcast. Full disclosure, what you're about to hear is generated by an AI, courtesy of Google's notebook LM. And each episode is based on a different chapter of my book. I hope you enjoy it and that I can give you something to think about today. Have fun.
[00:00:53] Unknown:
Okay. So today, we're diving into something I think we all kinda crave. You know? Yeah. Being interesting. It's true. Like, that feeling of you wanna make a good impression. You wanna hold someone's attention. Yeah. And we're looking at communication expert Martin Kloss who says, there's this surprising trap we often fall into, and it all starts with how we approach this whole being interesting
[00:01:14] Unknown:
thing. Yeah. And what I find fascinating is that Klaus, in his book, People Place Story, specifically the chapter Interested versus Interesting, he actually argues that directly going for interesting can kind of backfire.
[00:01:27] Unknown:
Okay. So unpack that a little bit. Why would aiming to be interesting, why would that make us less so?
[00:01:34] Unknown:
Well, it comes across as, I think a little self centered, maybe even needy. Because think about it. When you're trying too hard to be interesting, what you're really focused on is what you're getting out of the interaction. Right. The validation, the attention, all of that. But what about the other person?
[00:01:52] Unknown:
So we're so busy trying to impress them that we forget to actually connect with them. Exactly. And people can sense that. Right? They know
[00:01:59] Unknown:
when someone's genuinely interested in them versus just trying to kinda sell them something even if it's their own personality.
[00:02:06] Unknown:
Yeah. That reminds me. Kloss talks about how as a kid, he was obsessed with being cool like Michael j Fox in Back to the Future. Yeah. Like, he even took up skateboarding to school hoping to impress everyone. Oh, wow. And how'd that go? Well, not great, apparently. Yeah. He said it just felt inauthentic and people could tell. Well, sure. Because as he points out, being cool, being interesting,
[00:02:28] Unknown:
you can't force it.
[00:02:29] Unknown:
Those qualities, they're usually a byproduct of something else, something deeper. And that's where his big idea comes in, right, this shift from interesting to interested.
[00:02:37] Unknown:
Yes. Exactly. Kloss argues that cultivating genuine interest and, crucially, interest in your audience, that is the real key to captivating others.
[00:02:48] Unknown:
So instead of trying to be the most interesting person in the room, we should, what, aim to be the most I mean, that almost sounds too simple. How does that actually work? Well, it's about shifting your focus a little bit. You know? Think of it this way. Imagine
[00:03:00] Unknown:
you're at a party. Right? Right. And you meet someone who's clearly trying to impress everyone with their stories and their jokes. Yeah. Now imagine you meet someone else, and they are genuinely curious about you. Uh-huh. They're asking thoughtful questions. They're listening to your answers. They're sharing their own experiences, but in a way that connects to yours. Yeah. Who are you gonna find more interesting?
[00:03:21] Unknown:
The second person, for sure. Just even thinking about it, I can feel that difference.
[00:03:26] Unknown:
Exactly. It's about making that connection. And it all starts with just being present, being engaged with the person right there in front of you. Plus, he compares it to, like, a gift exchange. Okay. When you bring genuine interest to the table, both in, you know, your content and in your audience, the whole interaction, it just becomes richer, more rewarding for everyone.
[00:03:48] Unknown:
Okay. I'm starting to see how this works. So it's not about, like, faking passion or just throwing out random questions. It's about, like you were saying, finding that spark, that thing that genuinely makes you wanna share it Yeah. Yeah. With someone else. You got it. And and Klaus actually breaks it down into, like, these two levels of interested.
[00:04:05] Unknown:
Right. He calls the first one being interested in your content. And this isn't about, you know, being the world's leading expert on a subject. Right? It's about
[00:04:15] Unknown:
finding that spark, that thing that truly makes you wanna share it with somebody else. You know, that that reminds me, actually, the other day I was reading this article about insert interesting fact related to the topic of the deep dive. And I was so blown away by it. I, like, immediately called my friend to tell him all about it. Sure. I I just I couldn't wait to share that that excitement. You know? That's a perfect example. That's what he's talking about, that that contagious enthusiasm that is so much more compelling than
[00:04:43] Unknown:
any, you know, rehearsed speech or performance.
[00:04:46] Unknown:
Right. Okay. So that that's interested in the content. What about he said there were two levels. What about interested in your audience? Because I'll be honest, sometimes I get so caught up in what I'm talking about that I kinda forget to think about the other person. Oh, sure. We've all been there. But the good news is Kloss gives us a beautifully simple tool for this. Okay. Asking questions. Oh, yeah. And and really listening to the answers, of course. It's amazing how something so fundamental can be so powerful. Right. But I can see how that would make the other person feel,
[00:05:19] Unknown:
you know, valued, heard. Mhmm. And then instantly, it makes the conversation more engaging. It really is. Think about it. When you ask someone a question, you're basically saying, hey, I'm interested in what you have to say. And who doesn't wanna feel like their thoughts and opinions are valued? Right. Totally. It's like you're giving them permission to be interesting just by being interested in them. I love that. It's a beautiful paradox, isn't it? But but how do we make this work, like, practically? You know? It's not like we can just, like, walk around with a list of interview questions for every person we meet. Maybe some of us can. But I I I think there's a more, organic approach, probably. Right. Right. And Kloss, he gives some good advice for this. He suggests, like, just a little, like, pre interaction prep. Okay. So before you go into a presentation or even just a casual conversation, just take a second. Think about what genuinely interests you about the topic. K. Like, what are you excited to talk about? So tapping into that authentic enthusiasm again. Exactly. And then think about, you know, the person or people you're gonna be interacting with. What are their backgrounds? What are their interests? What kind of questions might actually spark their curiosity? It's almost like you're, what, like, setting the stage for a more engaging, more meaningful conversation before it even begins. Exactly. Precisely. And then during the conversation itself, remember those two levels. Let your own genuine curiosity shine through, you know, because people are drawn to that. But also, just make a conscious effort to ask questions. Actually listen to those responses. Yeah. And you'll be amazed by how much this simple shift
[00:06:47] Unknown:
can really transform your interaction. So it really is about being present, being engaged, and being genuinely curious about the world around us and the people in it. Sounds so simple, but I can see how powerful that could be. It is powerful. And and you know what I find interesting?
[00:07:04] Unknown:
Often, the people we find most captivating, they're not the ones who are trying the hardest to impress us. It's the ones who are just genuinely interested in the world, in the people around them. Right. They listen. They ask questions. They share their own passions with, like you were saying, that contagious enthusiasm. And that's what makes them so magnetic. That is interesting.
[00:07:26] Unknown:
And it really brings it home that being genuinely interested is it's so much more attractive than just trying to appear interesting. Right. It's about making that connection, sparking that curiosity,
[00:07:36] Unknown:
and creating the shared experience that, you know, benefits everyone. Exactly. It's about shifting that focus from what can I get out of this interaction to what can we create together? And that's how you become someone that people they genuinely want to be around. That's a fantastic takeaway. So to wrap things up, if you wanna be more interesting,
[00:07:54] Unknown:
be more interested. Cultivate your own curiosity, ask questions, be present in those interactions. And who knows, you might just find that by focusing on being interested, you actually become the most interesting person in the room without even trying. Absolutely. That's the beauty of it. And that is all the time we have for today's deep dive. We hope you've enjoyed this exploration of Martin Kloss's work as much as we have. Until next time, keep those minds curious, stay interested, and keep those conversations flowing.
[00:08:31] Martin Kloss:
Hi everyone, it's me again. Just a quick note before I let you go. I hope you found today's episode entertaining, engaging and maybe even inspiring. If you did, please spread the word. And if you didn't, please keep it to yourself. And if you wanna know more, have any questions, or wanna work with me, please get in touch with me on MartinKloss.com or on LinkedIn. Now have a great day. Go out and do something fun.
