Welcome to another episode of People Play Story, where we delve into the art of storytelling and impactful communication. I'm Martin Kloss, your host, a professional story coach, and speaker trainer. Today, we explore the intriguing concept of perfectionism and its impact on communication, inspired by a chapter from my book, People Play Story. Although the book is currently available only in German, this podcast aims to reach a broader audience.
In this episode, we discuss the pressure of striving for perfection, especially in high-stakes situations like presentations. I argue that aiming for 'good enough' can often be more effective than chasing an unattainable ideal of perfection. We explore how even with absolute power, like that of dictators, control is never complete, illustrating that perfection is a moving target.
We delve into the importance of focusing on what we can control—our reactions, preparation, and connection with the audience. Embracing vulnerability and authenticity can make us more relatable and engaging. Mistakes and imperfections can actually enhance our connection with others, as they reveal our human side.
We also discuss shifting from a deficit mindset to an abundance mindset, focusing on our unique strengths and perspectives rather than our perceived shortcomings. This shift allows us to communicate more authentically and build genuine relationships.
Finally, we emphasize the importance of preparation paired with a willingness to adapt and embrace spontaneity. True connection requires letting go of the illusion of control and embracing the messiness of human interaction. By doing so, we can focus on what truly matters—authentic connections and the beautiful journey of being human.
[00:00:08]
Martin Kloss:
Hi, and welcome to People Play Story, a podcast about storytelling and how to communicate with impact. My name is Martin Kloss, and I'm a professional story coach and speaker trainer. I recently wrote a book. It's called People Play Story, but it's only available in German for now. So to help me reach a wider audience and spread the word about the power of stories, I created this podcast. Full disclosure, what you're about to hear is generated by an AI, courtesy of Google's notebook LM. And each episode is based on a different chapter of my book. I hope you enjoy it and that I can give you something to think about today. Have fun.
[00:00:53] Unknown:
Ever get that feeling, like, when you really wanna, like, nail something? You know, when you're trying to get your point across and it feels like everything has to be perfect, especially when you're prepping for something, like a big presentation. Like, every little detail feels so important. Oh, absolutely. We're diving into that whole idea today with, with Martin Kloss's People Place story. Okay. And it's interesting because it's not your typical self help book. You know? Right. Kloss actually argues that, aiming for good enough might actually be more effective than shooting for absolute perfection.
[00:01:27] Unknown:
Yeah. And what I find so fascinating about Kloss is that he kinda starts by acknowledging that that deep human desire within us to reach for perfection. Right. You know? But he then goes on to say that true perfection, it's not really a destination. Right. It's more like this this moving target that we can never quite hit. So it's impossible.
[00:01:46] Unknown:
It is. So when you sent over the part about dictators, I have to admit I was a little, like Yeah. It's interesting. It's not what I expected. Yeah. So how does how does Kloss connect those two ideas? Like, what does he mean by impossible, and how does that change how we approach things?
[00:02:02] Unknown:
Well and that's where I think Kloss gets really interesting. He uses his example of dictators to illustrate that even with absolute power, right, you can't control everything. Mhmm. So you can spend hours perfecting every aspect of your presentation, like rehearsing your delivery, getting the slides just right. But you can't control if someone's having a bad day in the audience or if the projector decides to die on you. Or the tech doesn't work or Exactly. And then Klas, he takes it a step further. Right? Correct. He points out that even beyond those external factors, what we consider perfect is subjective. So what you might consider a flawless presentation might be completely different from what I would consider flawless.
[00:02:44] Unknown:
So with all that said, how do we deal with this pressure? You know? There's still so much emphasis on being perfect. Absolutely. What's Klaus' advice on how to navigate that? Well, this is where I think this idea of responsibility comes in. Okay. Instead of chasing something that's impossible,
[00:03:01] Unknown:
Klaus says we should shift our focus Okay. To what we can control. Like what? Our reactions to things, our preparation,
[00:03:08] Unknown:
and how we choose to connect with our audience. So it's more about being ready to engage and adapt
[00:03:15] Unknown:
even when things go off script. Exactly. Yeah. And this is where Clausius brings in another interesting point. Okay. He argues that a lot of times, it's those, you know, those moments where we let our guard down a little bit. Right. Those moments of vulnerability.
[00:03:27] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:03:28] Unknown:
Those can actually make us more relatable.
[00:03:30] Unknown:
And engaging. Yes. You pulled this quote, and I absolutely loved it. It says, mistakes show how imperfect even the speaker on stage is. It is. Yeah. And it's a good reminder that we're all human. Exactly. And it's those moments that resonate with people Yeah. Because we're showing that human side. Right? So you're saying that by trying to be perfect, we're actually hurting our chances of connecting with the audience. Think of it this way. Would you rather listen to a robot
[00:03:58] Unknown:
deliver a perfect presentation or a real person,
[00:04:03] Unknown:
flaws and all, who's passionate about what they're talking about? Yeah. I know who I'd rather listen to. Exactly. But how do we escape that feeling? Because we're conditioned to think that any flaw is like a weakness Yep. When, really, it's the opposite. It can be. Yeah. So how do we how do we break free from that? Yeah. It's like we're almost conditioned, right, to think that showing any imperfection is a bad thing
[00:04:25] Unknown:
when in reality, it's often those imperfections that make us relatable. It's so true. And, Khloe, he talks about this idea of shifting from a deficit mindset to an abundance mindset. Yeah. What does that look like? Well, it's a really powerful shift because instead of focusing on what we lack You know, maybe it's confidence, maybe it's eloquence, maybe it's that booming stage presence. Right. We start focusing on what we do bring. Our unique experiences, our perspectives, our sense of humor Right. Those are assets, not deficits.
[00:04:55] Unknown:
Okay. So instead of saying to yourself, I'm not a good public speaker because I get nervous, you might instead say, well, I'm willing to be a little vulnerable Yeah. Yeah. And share that because I'm passionate about it. Exactly. And I think that vulnerability,
[00:05:09] Unknown:
that willingness to be authentically, you know, flaws and all, that's what creates that connection with the audience. Because so often, we're trying to project this this image of of
[00:05:20] Unknown:
of of effortless perfection Right. That we forget that people actually connect with authenticity. It's like we're trying to sell a product instead of building a relationship.
[00:05:28] Unknown:
Yes. Exactly. And building relationships. Yeah. That's what communication is. Right? Right. Think about a time when someone's imperfection actually made them more likable. Maybe it was a speaker who flubbed a line and laughed it off or a friend who admitted they were nervous about something. Like, did that make you respect them less? No. Never. In fact, it's usually the opposite. Exactly. Yeah. It makes them more human. It does. It makes them more approachable. Yes. Okay. But
[00:05:55] Unknown:
is there a danger in taking this too far?
[00:05:58] Unknown:
Yeah. Because, like, where's the line between being authentic and then just being, like, unprepared? Sure. Sure. And that's a great question. And I don't think Klaus is suggesting that we throw preparation out the window. Yeah. He's not advocating for mediocrity or laziness. Yep. He actually emphasizes the importance of preparation, but it's about approaching that preparation with a spirit of experimentation
[00:06:22] Unknown:
and a willingness to adapt. Okay. So it's kinda like finding that sweet spot. Right? You're saying that it's not good enough as in, like, giving up? Exactly. It's good enough as in, like, that's all you really need to connect. Right. And it's paired with this genuine
[00:06:37] Unknown:
enthusiasm Yeah. Yeah. And willingness to be ourselves. Yes. Exactly. And that's where I think this concept of abundance really comes full circle. Right? Okay. Because when we focus on what we bring to the table, our unique strengths and perspectives, we naturally approach communication with this abundance,
[00:06:54] Unknown:
like we have something valuable to share. It's interesting you say that because it it makes me think back to what you were saying earlier about dictators and control. Yes. Because it's like the more we try to control
[00:07:06] Unknown:
every little thing Yes. The less present we are. Absolutely. And I think that's a really great point because Coles' point is that true connection, whether it's in a presentation or any form of communication Mhmm. Requires a degree of letting go. Right? Yeah. It's relinquishing that illusion of control Right. And and and embracing the messiness and the spontaneity Yeah. And, yes, even the imperfections.
[00:07:29] Unknown:
It reminds me of that saying,
[00:07:31] Unknown:
we plan, god laughs. Yes. Because you can plan everything out perfectly, and something's gonna happen that's unexpected. Exactly. Yeah. And I think that's a brilliant, brilliant way to put it because it ties in perfectly with Klaus' overall message, which is that embracing imperfection isn't about settling. Right. It's about freeing ourselves from this impossible pursuit of perfection so that we can focus on what truly matters, connecting with others authentically and embracing the the messy, beautiful journey of being human. So it's less about, you know, trying to be flawless and more about just showing up as yourself Yeah. And being ready to connect with people Absolutely. Even if things aren't perfect. And I think, you know, when we loosen our grip on needing everything to be perfect Yeah. It allows for those those unscripted moments Right. Exactly. Where we can really connect with people.
[00:08:22] Unknown:
It's like that saying life is what happens when you're busy making other plans. Yes. Exactly. You put so much work into making it perfect, and then something comes along. And Yeah. Those unexpected moments. Yeah. Right? That often lead to the most genuine connections. It makes you wonder if that's why we are so drawn to those really effortless performances. You know? Yeah. Because on some level, we recognize that realness. That authenticity. Yeah. It's like you can tell that they're not trying to be perfect. Exactly. Being themselves. And there's a certain magnetism, I think, to that authenticity. Definitely. When someone can own their imperfections,
[00:08:57] Unknown:
it disarms you. Yeah. Makes you more receptive to what they're saying. It's like they're giving you permission to be yourself too. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And all. And that that shared human experience, that connection, I think, can be really powerful.
[00:09:10] Unknown:
Yeah. So as we wrap up our our deep dive into Kloss's work here, what's one thing you hope our listener takes away?
[00:09:18] Unknown:
You know, when it comes to communication, I think the important thing is you don't have to choose between, you know, striving for excellence Yeah. And accepting that you're imperfect. Yeah. In fact, it's often in those those messy, imperfect moments that we discover our most authentic selves. It's about giving yourself permission
[00:09:37] Unknown:
to be human. Yes. To make mistakes, try things out, and enjoy the process
[00:09:43] Unknown:
even if it's not perfect. Exactly. And you know what? You might even find that those imperfections
[00:09:47] Unknown:
are really the key to connecting with people on a deeper level. It's about finding that connection, not chasing after some, you know, unattainable ideal. Yeah. Well, on that note, we'll leave it there for today. To our listeners, think about where you can embrace this idea of abundance. Where can you let go of that need for everything to be perfect? It's about progress, not perfection. Exactly. And until next time, keep diving deep.
[00:10:19] Martin Kloss:
Hi, everyone. It's me again. Just a quick note before I let you go. I hope you found today's episode entertaining, engaging, and maybe even inspiring. If you did, please spread the word. And if you didn't, please keep it to yourself. And if you wanna know more, have any questions, or wanna work with me, please get in touch with me on martinklaus.com or on LinkedIn. Now have a great day. Go out and do something fun.
Hi, and welcome to People Play Story, a podcast about storytelling and how to communicate with impact. My name is Martin Kloss, and I'm a professional story coach and speaker trainer. I recently wrote a book. It's called People Play Story, but it's only available in German for now. So to help me reach a wider audience and spread the word about the power of stories, I created this podcast. Full disclosure, what you're about to hear is generated by an AI, courtesy of Google's notebook LM. And each episode is based on a different chapter of my book. I hope you enjoy it and that I can give you something to think about today. Have fun.
[00:00:53] Unknown:
Ever get that feeling, like, when you really wanna, like, nail something? You know, when you're trying to get your point across and it feels like everything has to be perfect, especially when you're prepping for something, like a big presentation. Like, every little detail feels so important. Oh, absolutely. We're diving into that whole idea today with, with Martin Kloss's People Place story. Okay. And it's interesting because it's not your typical self help book. You know? Right. Kloss actually argues that, aiming for good enough might actually be more effective than shooting for absolute perfection.
[00:01:27] Unknown:
Yeah. And what I find so fascinating about Kloss is that he kinda starts by acknowledging that that deep human desire within us to reach for perfection. Right. You know? But he then goes on to say that true perfection, it's not really a destination. Right. It's more like this this moving target that we can never quite hit. So it's impossible.
[00:01:46] Unknown:
It is. So when you sent over the part about dictators, I have to admit I was a little, like Yeah. It's interesting. It's not what I expected. Yeah. So how does how does Kloss connect those two ideas? Like, what does he mean by impossible, and how does that change how we approach things?
[00:02:02] Unknown:
Well and that's where I think Kloss gets really interesting. He uses his example of dictators to illustrate that even with absolute power, right, you can't control everything. Mhmm. So you can spend hours perfecting every aspect of your presentation, like rehearsing your delivery, getting the slides just right. But you can't control if someone's having a bad day in the audience or if the projector decides to die on you. Or the tech doesn't work or Exactly. And then Klas, he takes it a step further. Right? Correct. He points out that even beyond those external factors, what we consider perfect is subjective. So what you might consider a flawless presentation might be completely different from what I would consider flawless.
[00:02:44] Unknown:
So with all that said, how do we deal with this pressure? You know? There's still so much emphasis on being perfect. Absolutely. What's Klaus' advice on how to navigate that? Well, this is where I think this idea of responsibility comes in. Okay. Instead of chasing something that's impossible,
[00:03:01] Unknown:
Klaus says we should shift our focus Okay. To what we can control. Like what? Our reactions to things, our preparation,
[00:03:08] Unknown:
and how we choose to connect with our audience. So it's more about being ready to engage and adapt
[00:03:15] Unknown:
even when things go off script. Exactly. Yeah. And this is where Clausius brings in another interesting point. Okay. He argues that a lot of times, it's those, you know, those moments where we let our guard down a little bit. Right. Those moments of vulnerability.
[00:03:27] Unknown:
Yeah.
[00:03:28] Unknown:
Those can actually make us more relatable.
[00:03:30] Unknown:
And engaging. Yes. You pulled this quote, and I absolutely loved it. It says, mistakes show how imperfect even the speaker on stage is. It is. Yeah. And it's a good reminder that we're all human. Exactly. And it's those moments that resonate with people Yeah. Because we're showing that human side. Right? So you're saying that by trying to be perfect, we're actually hurting our chances of connecting with the audience. Think of it this way. Would you rather listen to a robot
[00:03:58] Unknown:
deliver a perfect presentation or a real person,
[00:04:03] Unknown:
flaws and all, who's passionate about what they're talking about? Yeah. I know who I'd rather listen to. Exactly. But how do we escape that feeling? Because we're conditioned to think that any flaw is like a weakness Yep. When, really, it's the opposite. It can be. Yeah. So how do we how do we break free from that? Yeah. It's like we're almost conditioned, right, to think that showing any imperfection is a bad thing
[00:04:25] Unknown:
when in reality, it's often those imperfections that make us relatable. It's so true. And, Khloe, he talks about this idea of shifting from a deficit mindset to an abundance mindset. Yeah. What does that look like? Well, it's a really powerful shift because instead of focusing on what we lack You know, maybe it's confidence, maybe it's eloquence, maybe it's that booming stage presence. Right. We start focusing on what we do bring. Our unique experiences, our perspectives, our sense of humor Right. Those are assets, not deficits.
[00:04:55] Unknown:
Okay. So instead of saying to yourself, I'm not a good public speaker because I get nervous, you might instead say, well, I'm willing to be a little vulnerable Yeah. Yeah. And share that because I'm passionate about it. Exactly. And I think that vulnerability,
[00:05:09] Unknown:
that willingness to be authentically, you know, flaws and all, that's what creates that connection with the audience. Because so often, we're trying to project this this image of of
[00:05:20] Unknown:
of of effortless perfection Right. That we forget that people actually connect with authenticity. It's like we're trying to sell a product instead of building a relationship.
[00:05:28] Unknown:
Yes. Exactly. And building relationships. Yeah. That's what communication is. Right? Right. Think about a time when someone's imperfection actually made them more likable. Maybe it was a speaker who flubbed a line and laughed it off or a friend who admitted they were nervous about something. Like, did that make you respect them less? No. Never. In fact, it's usually the opposite. Exactly. Yeah. It makes them more human. It does. It makes them more approachable. Yes. Okay. But
[00:05:55] Unknown:
is there a danger in taking this too far?
[00:05:58] Unknown:
Yeah. Because, like, where's the line between being authentic and then just being, like, unprepared? Sure. Sure. And that's a great question. And I don't think Klaus is suggesting that we throw preparation out the window. Yeah. He's not advocating for mediocrity or laziness. Yep. He actually emphasizes the importance of preparation, but it's about approaching that preparation with a spirit of experimentation
[00:06:22] Unknown:
and a willingness to adapt. Okay. So it's kinda like finding that sweet spot. Right? You're saying that it's not good enough as in, like, giving up? Exactly. It's good enough as in, like, that's all you really need to connect. Right. And it's paired with this genuine
[00:06:37] Unknown:
enthusiasm Yeah. Yeah. And willingness to be ourselves. Yes. Exactly. And that's where I think this concept of abundance really comes full circle. Right? Okay. Because when we focus on what we bring to the table, our unique strengths and perspectives, we naturally approach communication with this abundance,
[00:06:54] Unknown:
like we have something valuable to share. It's interesting you say that because it it makes me think back to what you were saying earlier about dictators and control. Yes. Because it's like the more we try to control
[00:07:06] Unknown:
every little thing Yes. The less present we are. Absolutely. And I think that's a really great point because Coles' point is that true connection, whether it's in a presentation or any form of communication Mhmm. Requires a degree of letting go. Right? Yeah. It's relinquishing that illusion of control Right. And and and embracing the messiness and the spontaneity Yeah. And, yes, even the imperfections.
[00:07:29] Unknown:
It reminds me of that saying,
[00:07:31] Unknown:
we plan, god laughs. Yes. Because you can plan everything out perfectly, and something's gonna happen that's unexpected. Exactly. Yeah. And I think that's a brilliant, brilliant way to put it because it ties in perfectly with Klaus' overall message, which is that embracing imperfection isn't about settling. Right. It's about freeing ourselves from this impossible pursuit of perfection so that we can focus on what truly matters, connecting with others authentically and embracing the the messy, beautiful journey of being human. So it's less about, you know, trying to be flawless and more about just showing up as yourself Yeah. And being ready to connect with people Absolutely. Even if things aren't perfect. And I think, you know, when we loosen our grip on needing everything to be perfect Yeah. It allows for those those unscripted moments Right. Exactly. Where we can really connect with people.
[00:08:22] Unknown:
It's like that saying life is what happens when you're busy making other plans. Yes. Exactly. You put so much work into making it perfect, and then something comes along. And Yeah. Those unexpected moments. Yeah. Right? That often lead to the most genuine connections. It makes you wonder if that's why we are so drawn to those really effortless performances. You know? Yeah. Because on some level, we recognize that realness. That authenticity. Yeah. It's like you can tell that they're not trying to be perfect. Exactly. Being themselves. And there's a certain magnetism, I think, to that authenticity. Definitely. When someone can own their imperfections,
[00:08:57] Unknown:
it disarms you. Yeah. Makes you more receptive to what they're saying. It's like they're giving you permission to be yourself too. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And all. And that that shared human experience, that connection, I think, can be really powerful.
[00:09:10] Unknown:
Yeah. So as we wrap up our our deep dive into Kloss's work here, what's one thing you hope our listener takes away?
[00:09:18] Unknown:
You know, when it comes to communication, I think the important thing is you don't have to choose between, you know, striving for excellence Yeah. And accepting that you're imperfect. Yeah. In fact, it's often in those those messy, imperfect moments that we discover our most authentic selves. It's about giving yourself permission
[00:09:37] Unknown:
to be human. Yes. To make mistakes, try things out, and enjoy the process
[00:09:43] Unknown:
even if it's not perfect. Exactly. And you know what? You might even find that those imperfections
[00:09:47] Unknown:
are really the key to connecting with people on a deeper level. It's about finding that connection, not chasing after some, you know, unattainable ideal. Yeah. Well, on that note, we'll leave it there for today. To our listeners, think about where you can embrace this idea of abundance. Where can you let go of that need for everything to be perfect? It's about progress, not perfection. Exactly. And until next time, keep diving deep.
[00:10:19] Martin Kloss:
Hi, everyone. It's me again. Just a quick note before I let you go. I hope you found today's episode entertaining, engaging, and maybe even inspiring. If you did, please spread the word. And if you didn't, please keep it to yourself. And if you wanna know more, have any questions, or wanna work with me, please get in touch with me on martinklaus.com or on LinkedIn. Now have a great day. Go out and do something fun.
