Welcome to another episode of People Play Story, where we delve into the fascinating world of storytelling. Today, we explore the building blocks of storytelling, representing universal human experiences.
We also discuss Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey, a 17-stage narrative structure that has influenced countless stories, including the iconic Star Wars saga. The Hero's Journey is divided into three acts: Departure, Initiation, and Return, each representing a crucial phase in the hero's transformation.
Our conversation extends to Carl Jung's archetypes, the recurring character types that resonate across cultures and time periods. These archetypes, such as the hero, mentor, and villain, are expressions of the collective unconscious, providing a familiar framework within which stories unfold.
We also touch on the power of metaphors, those subtle yet potent tools that convey complex ideas and emotions. Metaphors offer fresh perspectives, making abstract concepts tangible and enhancing the vividness of storytelling.
By understanding these storytelling elements, we empower ourselves to not only consume stories more critically but also create compelling narratives of our own. Join us as we uncover the art and science of storytelling, equipping you with tools to communicate more effectively and recognize the stories that shape our world.
[00:00:08]
Martin Kloss:
Hi, and welcome to People Play Story, a podcast about storytelling and how to communicate with impact. My name is Martin Kloss, and I'm a professional story coach and speaker trainer. I recently wrote a book. It's called People Play Story, but it's only available in German for now. So to help me reach a wider audience and spread the word about the power of stories, I created this podcast. Full disclosure, what you're about to hear is generated by an AI, courtesy of Google's notebook LM. And each episode is based on a different chapter of my book. I hope you enjoy it and that I can give you something to think about today. Have fun.
[00:00:53] Unknown:
Hey, everyone. Welcome back. We're diving into something really cool today, something that's all about stories. And, I mean, who doesn't love a good story? Right? We're looking at this book, People Play Story, the Universal Story. And let me tell you, it's got some wild ideas about how stories work. Like, get this, It says there are only 6 basic story types.
[00:01:13] Unknown:
6.
[00:01:15] Unknown:
That's it. I know. Right? Sounds kinda crazy when you think about all the books and movies out there. Yeah. But the source lays out these 6 types. Rags to riches, riches to rags, Icarus, Oedipus, Cinderella, and Man in a Hole. And honestly, some of those names just scream classic story. You know? Like, you hear rags to riches, and you instantly think of those inspiring underdog tales, or Cinderella finding her prince. It's true those basic plots show up again and again. Exactly. And its source argues that these 6 stories aren't just random. They're like the building blocks of any good yarn. They represent those universal experiences. Right? The stuff everyone goes through wanting success,
[00:01:51] Unknown:
worrying about failing,
[00:01:53] Unknown:
dealing with the fallout from our choices, good or bad. Totally. And to figure this out, the researchers behind this, they crunch the numbers on thousands
[00:02:02] Unknown:
of novels. Looking for those common threads, those patterns that just keep popping up no matter the genre or the time period. Like, they crack some kind of storytelling code. You know? Yeah. But it gets even wilder. This is where Joseph Campbell's hero's journey comes in. Have you heard of that? Oh, yeah. It's huge, especially in film. George Lucas, the guy behind Star Wars, he was super into Campbell's work. No way. Really. Oh, absolutely. Luke Skywalker's whole journey, it's like a textbook example of the hero's journey. That makes so much sense. It's everywhere from ancient myths
[00:02:33] Unknown:
to those blockbuster movies everyone's watching. So anyone who's ever thought, wait, Haven't I seen this before? Campbell might have the answer. He says this universal story happens in 17 stages. These stages group together into bigger chunks. Right? Kinda like chapters in a book. Yeah. Exactly. Think of it like, 3 main acts in a play. Okay. I could dig that. So what's act 1 all about? Act 1 is the departure.
[00:02:54] Unknown:
It's all about our hero, you know, actually starting their journey. They're stepping into the unknown,
[00:03:00] Unknown:
leaving their comfort zone behind. Right. Like Dorothy leaving Kansas in The Wizard of Oz. Exactly. Or think about,
[00:03:07] Unknown:
like, a character in a book who finally quits their boring job to chase their real dream. That first big leap is crucial. Makes sense. But I'm guessing it's not always smooth sailing right from the get go. Oh, definitely not. This departure stage, it often involves some hesitation.
[00:03:25] Unknown:
Like, the hero might resist the call to adventure at first. Right. Like, they're not sure if they're ready or they're scared of failing.
[00:03:32] Unknown:
Classic storytelling stuff. For sure. And they usually face those early challenges that make them question everything. But, eventually, something pushes them forward. Right? Exactly. Something compels them to take that leap of faith. So that's the departure.
[00:03:44] Unknown:
What about act 2? This is where things get really good. Right? Absolutely.
[00:03:48] Unknown:
This is the initiation, the heart of the hero's journey according to Campbell. Okay. So lay it on me. What goes down in the initiation? This is where they really face some trials, confront their biggest fears, learn those tough lessons.
[00:04:02] Unknown:
It's where the stakes get higher. Okay. So it's not just about venturing out anymore. Now the real challenges begin. Right. We're talking alliances, enemies, all that good stuff. Love it. But it's not all external battles, is it? I mean, don't they have to face some inner demons too? Exactly.
[00:04:18] Unknown:
Campbell was all about that internal struggle too. During the initiation, the hero has to really look inward, confront their own flaws,
[00:04:26] Unknown:
and overcome their own self doubt. It's where they grow the most. Oh, I love that. It's like that part in the movie where the hero has a chance to turn back, take the easy way out, but they push through even though it's hard. Yes.
[00:04:39] Unknown:
And those are often the moments that stick with us most as an audience. Right? That vulnerability, that strength to keep going. Totally. It's like we see ourselves in those struggles. You know? Absolutely. It's that human element that really draws us in. So the hero's
[00:04:53] Unknown:
been through the wringer, faced those challenges, and hopefully come out stronger. What happens next? What's act 3? Act 3 is the return. This is where things get really interesting. Wow. So what makes the return so special?
[00:05:05] Unknown:
Well, the hero returns to their ordinary world, but they're not the same person anymore. They've changed, grown, learned so much. They've leveled up. They probably have some cool battle scars too. Right. Maybe literal ones, maybe not. But they've definitely got wisdom, maybe a newfound strength. Or just a new perspective on life. Right? They see things differently now. Exactly. And it's not just about their personal growth. Campbell says the return is also about them using what they've learned to help others make their world a better place. Okay. So they're not just coming back and be like, hey. Look at me. I'm amazing now.
[00:05:40] Unknown:
They're using their experience to make a difference. Precisely.
[00:05:44] Unknown:
Think about, like, Luke Skywalker again. Right? He comes back from his Jedi training, and he uses his new skills
[00:05:51] Unknown:
to fight against the empire. Right. He doesn't just become a hermit and meditate on a mountaintop. Yeah. He puts those skills to good use. Exactly. So we've got our departure, our initiation, and our return, the three acts of the hero's journey.
[00:06:05] Unknown:
What about the characters themselves, though? Yes. We've got this epic story structure. Right? But what about the characters who go on these journeys? That's where those archetypes come in, don't they? Exactly.
[00:06:15] Unknown:
The source gets into Carl Jung's idea of archetypes, these recurring character types we see over and over across different cultures, different time periods, like it's hardwired into us. So we're talking about the hero, obviously, but also the mentor, the villain, the trickster. It's like we instinctively
[00:06:31] Unknown:
recognize these characters even if the story is totally new to us. It's true. Like, we see a wise old mentor figure pop up, and boom, we kinda already know they're gonna guide our hero on their path. Totally. It's like our brains just get it. So is that what Jung meant by the collective unconscious? Like, these patterns are already in our mind somehow? That's exactly it. He believed these archetypes, their expressions of that collective unconscious, those shared ways of thinking and acting acting that we all tap into.
[00:06:58] Unknown:
Okay. That's fascinating. But I'm also thinking, doesn't this tie into how much humans love patterns in general?
[00:07:05] Unknown:
Like, we spot a familiar face in a crowd, even from far away. Our brains are always looking for that order. You're right. Our brains crave that, and the source points out that's part of why archetypes work so well. They give us that sense of familiarity, that predictability even when the rest of the story is full of surprises.
[00:07:22] Unknown:
That makes sense, but I'm also wanting to go out the flip side. If we rely too much on archetypes, does it become limiting? Like, could it lead to stereotyping?
[00:07:32] Unknown:
That's a really important point, and the source definitely addresses it. It's a fine line. Archetypes are powerful tools, but we have to be aware of their limits.
[00:07:42] Unknown:
So it's not about being stuck with these rigid character types. It's more like understanding them gives us a starting point, but then we can get creative. Right? Exactly. Once you recognize the pattern, you can play with it, twist around, even break completely. That's how you get those truly original memorable characters. I love that. It's like understanding the rules so you can break them effectively. And speaking of tools for storytelling, the source also digs into metaphors. And let me tell you, once I started paying attention, I realized they're everywhere. Oh, for sure. They're so woven into how we talk. We barely even notice them half the time. Right. Like, we say someone has a heart of gold or they're tough as nails, But this source got me thinking, metaphors are more than just figures of speech, aren't they? Mhmm. They're kinda sneaky powerful. Absolutely. They can express these big, complex ideas, stir up emotions,
[00:08:35] Unknown:
all in a way that our logical minds might miss,
[00:08:38] Unknown:
but our gut feeling gets it instantly. The source has this great line. It says metaphors are like a new view through old holes. It's like those holes are all the stuff we already know, our experiences. Mhmm. And then the metaphor comes along and gives us this fresh way of seeing things. And that fresh perspective, it can be huge, whether it's making a point hit harder, explaining something complicated in a way that makes sense, or just making a story way more vivid in your mind. It's true. Think about how often we use metaphors to trick get our heads around, like, science stuff. We talk about electricity flowing like water or atoms being like tiny little solar systems. Exactly. It takes something abstract, makes it concrete, something unfamiliar, and suddenly you're like, oh, okay. I kinda get that now. Totally. And the cool thing is the source challenges us to start really noticing metaphors in our own lives, not just to be better communicators ourselves, but to be smarter about how other people use language. Right. Because as we've been saying, metaphors, they pack a punch. They can be really persuasive. So, yeah, pay attention to that language being used in advertising, in politics, even just in everyday chats with people. It's like a secret code we all use, but now we're starting to crack it.
So to kinda bring everything full circle here, it seems like we've uncovered some pretty big truths about how stories work. There's a structure beneath the surface, And when we start to understand that structure, the hero's journey, those archetypes, the power of metaphors,
[00:10:03] Unknown:
it's like we've leveled up our brainpower. Totally. We're not just passively consuming stories anymore. We're
[00:10:09] Unknown:
equipped to analyze them, even create our own compelling narratives. And that's what I love about this whole deep dive. It's empowering. It's not just theory. It's giving us, the listeners, tools we can actually use to communicate better, think more critically, and be more aware of the stories all around us every single day. Absolutely. So as you go about your day, see if you can spot those patterns in action. Right? Is that movie you're watching following the hero's journey? Can you identify the archetypes at play in your favorite book? And, hey, what metaphors are subtly shaping your own thinking? Such a great challenge. And on that note, we're gonna wrap up this deep dive. It's been awesome exploring the art and science of storytelling with you all. Until next time. Happy reading, watching, and, of course, keep telling those stories.
[00:11:01] Martin Kloss:
Hi, everyone. It's me again. Just a quick note before I let you go. I hope you found today's episode entertaining, engaging, and maybe even inspiring. If you did, please spread the word. And if you didn't, please keep it to yourself. And if you wanna know more, have any questions, or wanna work with me, please get in touch with me on martinklaus.com or on LinkedIn. Now have a great day. Go out and do something fun.
Hi, and welcome to People Play Story, a podcast about storytelling and how to communicate with impact. My name is Martin Kloss, and I'm a professional story coach and speaker trainer. I recently wrote a book. It's called People Play Story, but it's only available in German for now. So to help me reach a wider audience and spread the word about the power of stories, I created this podcast. Full disclosure, what you're about to hear is generated by an AI, courtesy of Google's notebook LM. And each episode is based on a different chapter of my book. I hope you enjoy it and that I can give you something to think about today. Have fun.
[00:00:53] Unknown:
Hey, everyone. Welcome back. We're diving into something really cool today, something that's all about stories. And, I mean, who doesn't love a good story? Right? We're looking at this book, People Play Story, the Universal Story. And let me tell you, it's got some wild ideas about how stories work. Like, get this, It says there are only 6 basic story types.
[00:01:13] Unknown:
6.
[00:01:15] Unknown:
That's it. I know. Right? Sounds kinda crazy when you think about all the books and movies out there. Yeah. But the source lays out these 6 types. Rags to riches, riches to rags, Icarus, Oedipus, Cinderella, and Man in a Hole. And honestly, some of those names just scream classic story. You know? Like, you hear rags to riches, and you instantly think of those inspiring underdog tales, or Cinderella finding her prince. It's true those basic plots show up again and again. Exactly. And its source argues that these 6 stories aren't just random. They're like the building blocks of any good yarn. They represent those universal experiences. Right? The stuff everyone goes through wanting success,
[00:01:51] Unknown:
worrying about failing,
[00:01:53] Unknown:
dealing with the fallout from our choices, good or bad. Totally. And to figure this out, the researchers behind this, they crunch the numbers on thousands
[00:02:02] Unknown:
of novels. Looking for those common threads, those patterns that just keep popping up no matter the genre or the time period. Like, they crack some kind of storytelling code. You know? Yeah. But it gets even wilder. This is where Joseph Campbell's hero's journey comes in. Have you heard of that? Oh, yeah. It's huge, especially in film. George Lucas, the guy behind Star Wars, he was super into Campbell's work. No way. Really. Oh, absolutely. Luke Skywalker's whole journey, it's like a textbook example of the hero's journey. That makes so much sense. It's everywhere from ancient myths
[00:02:33] Unknown:
to those blockbuster movies everyone's watching. So anyone who's ever thought, wait, Haven't I seen this before? Campbell might have the answer. He says this universal story happens in 17 stages. These stages group together into bigger chunks. Right? Kinda like chapters in a book. Yeah. Exactly. Think of it like, 3 main acts in a play. Okay. I could dig that. So what's act 1 all about? Act 1 is the departure.
[00:02:54] Unknown:
It's all about our hero, you know, actually starting their journey. They're stepping into the unknown,
[00:03:00] Unknown:
leaving their comfort zone behind. Right. Like Dorothy leaving Kansas in The Wizard of Oz. Exactly. Or think about,
[00:03:07] Unknown:
like, a character in a book who finally quits their boring job to chase their real dream. That first big leap is crucial. Makes sense. But I'm guessing it's not always smooth sailing right from the get go. Oh, definitely not. This departure stage, it often involves some hesitation.
[00:03:25] Unknown:
Like, the hero might resist the call to adventure at first. Right. Like, they're not sure if they're ready or they're scared of failing.
[00:03:32] Unknown:
Classic storytelling stuff. For sure. And they usually face those early challenges that make them question everything. But, eventually, something pushes them forward. Right? Exactly. Something compels them to take that leap of faith. So that's the departure.
[00:03:44] Unknown:
What about act 2? This is where things get really good. Right? Absolutely.
[00:03:48] Unknown:
This is the initiation, the heart of the hero's journey according to Campbell. Okay. So lay it on me. What goes down in the initiation? This is where they really face some trials, confront their biggest fears, learn those tough lessons.
[00:04:02] Unknown:
It's where the stakes get higher. Okay. So it's not just about venturing out anymore. Now the real challenges begin. Right. We're talking alliances, enemies, all that good stuff. Love it. But it's not all external battles, is it? I mean, don't they have to face some inner demons too? Exactly.
[00:04:18] Unknown:
Campbell was all about that internal struggle too. During the initiation, the hero has to really look inward, confront their own flaws,
[00:04:26] Unknown:
and overcome their own self doubt. It's where they grow the most. Oh, I love that. It's like that part in the movie where the hero has a chance to turn back, take the easy way out, but they push through even though it's hard. Yes.
[00:04:39] Unknown:
And those are often the moments that stick with us most as an audience. Right? That vulnerability, that strength to keep going. Totally. It's like we see ourselves in those struggles. You know? Absolutely. It's that human element that really draws us in. So the hero's
[00:04:53] Unknown:
been through the wringer, faced those challenges, and hopefully come out stronger. What happens next? What's act 3? Act 3 is the return. This is where things get really interesting. Wow. So what makes the return so special?
[00:05:05] Unknown:
Well, the hero returns to their ordinary world, but they're not the same person anymore. They've changed, grown, learned so much. They've leveled up. They probably have some cool battle scars too. Right. Maybe literal ones, maybe not. But they've definitely got wisdom, maybe a newfound strength. Or just a new perspective on life. Right? They see things differently now. Exactly. And it's not just about their personal growth. Campbell says the return is also about them using what they've learned to help others make their world a better place. Okay. So they're not just coming back and be like, hey. Look at me. I'm amazing now.
[00:05:40] Unknown:
They're using their experience to make a difference. Precisely.
[00:05:44] Unknown:
Think about, like, Luke Skywalker again. Right? He comes back from his Jedi training, and he uses his new skills
[00:05:51] Unknown:
to fight against the empire. Right. He doesn't just become a hermit and meditate on a mountaintop. Yeah. He puts those skills to good use. Exactly. So we've got our departure, our initiation, and our return, the three acts of the hero's journey.
[00:06:05] Unknown:
What about the characters themselves, though? Yes. We've got this epic story structure. Right? But what about the characters who go on these journeys? That's where those archetypes come in, don't they? Exactly.
[00:06:15] Unknown:
The source gets into Carl Jung's idea of archetypes, these recurring character types we see over and over across different cultures, different time periods, like it's hardwired into us. So we're talking about the hero, obviously, but also the mentor, the villain, the trickster. It's like we instinctively
[00:06:31] Unknown:
recognize these characters even if the story is totally new to us. It's true. Like, we see a wise old mentor figure pop up, and boom, we kinda already know they're gonna guide our hero on their path. Totally. It's like our brains just get it. So is that what Jung meant by the collective unconscious? Like, these patterns are already in our mind somehow? That's exactly it. He believed these archetypes, their expressions of that collective unconscious, those shared ways of thinking and acting acting that we all tap into.
[00:06:58] Unknown:
Okay. That's fascinating. But I'm also thinking, doesn't this tie into how much humans love patterns in general?
[00:07:05] Unknown:
Like, we spot a familiar face in a crowd, even from far away. Our brains are always looking for that order. You're right. Our brains crave that, and the source points out that's part of why archetypes work so well. They give us that sense of familiarity, that predictability even when the rest of the story is full of surprises.
[00:07:22] Unknown:
That makes sense, but I'm also wanting to go out the flip side. If we rely too much on archetypes, does it become limiting? Like, could it lead to stereotyping?
[00:07:32] Unknown:
That's a really important point, and the source definitely addresses it. It's a fine line. Archetypes are powerful tools, but we have to be aware of their limits.
[00:07:42] Unknown:
So it's not about being stuck with these rigid character types. It's more like understanding them gives us a starting point, but then we can get creative. Right? Exactly. Once you recognize the pattern, you can play with it, twist around, even break completely. That's how you get those truly original memorable characters. I love that. It's like understanding the rules so you can break them effectively. And speaking of tools for storytelling, the source also digs into metaphors. And let me tell you, once I started paying attention, I realized they're everywhere. Oh, for sure. They're so woven into how we talk. We barely even notice them half the time. Right. Like, we say someone has a heart of gold or they're tough as nails, But this source got me thinking, metaphors are more than just figures of speech, aren't they? Mhmm. They're kinda sneaky powerful. Absolutely. They can express these big, complex ideas, stir up emotions,
[00:08:35] Unknown:
all in a way that our logical minds might miss,
[00:08:38] Unknown:
but our gut feeling gets it instantly. The source has this great line. It says metaphors are like a new view through old holes. It's like those holes are all the stuff we already know, our experiences. Mhmm. And then the metaphor comes along and gives us this fresh way of seeing things. And that fresh perspective, it can be huge, whether it's making a point hit harder, explaining something complicated in a way that makes sense, or just making a story way more vivid in your mind. It's true. Think about how often we use metaphors to trick get our heads around, like, science stuff. We talk about electricity flowing like water or atoms being like tiny little solar systems. Exactly. It takes something abstract, makes it concrete, something unfamiliar, and suddenly you're like, oh, okay. I kinda get that now. Totally. And the cool thing is the source challenges us to start really noticing metaphors in our own lives, not just to be better communicators ourselves, but to be smarter about how other people use language. Right. Because as we've been saying, metaphors, they pack a punch. They can be really persuasive. So, yeah, pay attention to that language being used in advertising, in politics, even just in everyday chats with people. It's like a secret code we all use, but now we're starting to crack it.
So to kinda bring everything full circle here, it seems like we've uncovered some pretty big truths about how stories work. There's a structure beneath the surface, And when we start to understand that structure, the hero's journey, those archetypes, the power of metaphors,
[00:10:03] Unknown:
it's like we've leveled up our brainpower. Totally. We're not just passively consuming stories anymore. We're
[00:10:09] Unknown:
equipped to analyze them, even create our own compelling narratives. And that's what I love about this whole deep dive. It's empowering. It's not just theory. It's giving us, the listeners, tools we can actually use to communicate better, think more critically, and be more aware of the stories all around us every single day. Absolutely. So as you go about your day, see if you can spot those patterns in action. Right? Is that movie you're watching following the hero's journey? Can you identify the archetypes at play in your favorite book? And, hey, what metaphors are subtly shaping your own thinking? Such a great challenge. And on that note, we're gonna wrap up this deep dive. It's been awesome exploring the art and science of storytelling with you all. Until next time. Happy reading, watching, and, of course, keep telling those stories.
[00:11:01] Martin Kloss:
Hi, everyone. It's me again. Just a quick note before I let you go. I hope you found today's episode entertaining, engaging, and maybe even inspiring. If you did, please spread the word. And if you didn't, please keep it to yourself. And if you wanna know more, have any questions, or wanna work with me, please get in touch with me on martinklaus.com or on LinkedIn. Now have a great day. Go out and do something fun.
